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Keeper is an adventure puzzle exploration game – and it's now available on GOG!

From Lee Petty and Double Fine Productions, creators of Stacking, Headlander, RAD, and Psychonauts, Keeper is a beautiful and surreal third-person, atmospheric, puzzle adventure, and a story told without words.   On an island in a long-lost sea, a forgotten lighthouse stands dormant in the shadow of a distant mountain peak.

Now on GOG!
Post edited September 03, 2026 by GOG.com
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HunchBluntley: "Any arbitrary impediment that I, personally, don't mind obviously doesn't count as DRM. Because DRM is bad, and I couldn't possibly be okay with something that's bad. Therefore: not DRM."
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amok: "Games are digital, and DRM is digital. DRM is bad, but there are also many other arbitrary digital things that I think are bad. Therefore, anything digital that I think is bad is DRM."
Shouldn't it be obvious that the purpose of anything which is dual or multi-purpose in nature is determined by the intention of the people implementing it?

I think so.
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richlind33: Hypothetical:

If you were a once-successful person who found yourself faced with living in destitution and the only way to avoid your fate was to make a Faustian bargain, what would you do?
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alaric.us: As a currently-successful person, I have, obviously, asked myself this question before so I already have the answer for you. While I do enjoy certain perks of having more money than average, I am actually comfortable with fairly little. Were I to be sent back to the starting point, I'd find it supremely annoying but not the end of the world. I'd get back on my feet soon enough, and even if I never again have quite as much, I know that I can be content with less.

Now, if I was a leader of a group of people who trusted me and followed me, or simply people who depended on me - that would be an entirely different story. I tend to feel a disproportionate sense of responsibility and am not as picky about the means by which to fulfill that responsibility. Of course, knowing this about myself I avoid placing myself in situations of that type: I don't start businesses and don't have children.

Edit: I gotta say, idea that working for Microsoft is somehow a "Faustian bargain" make me chuckle. You will be [dis?]pleased to know that I've made that bargain before and it worked out pretty well for me. =)
"starting point" and destitution are unlikely to be the same thing; one is extreme, the other is probably not. Also, let's assume that the people you felt responsible for understood the nature of the dilemma and were prepared to accept the consequences of your choice.

Re Microsoft, whether or not it's the "devil" depends entirely on the perspective(s) from which it's judged; from a purely materialistic perspective it's obviously not, but a Faustian bargain precludes that perspective, does it not?
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richlind33: "starting point" and destitution are unlikely to be the same thing; one is extreme, the other is probably not. Also, let's assume that the people you felt responsible for understood the nature of the dilemma and were prepared to accept the consequences of your choice.
You'd be surprised. But yes, you are also right in that things could be even worse. Same is true for success, I know there are people who wouldn't consider me successful at all. I guess all things are relative and depend on what you compare them to.

Now if the people I felt responsible for would be perfectly happy with what was coming their way (being fired in this case) then there is no dilemma to be had. Something tells me, however, that they wouldn't be. It's odd that you'd assume they would. Everyone always complains about evil companies firing people, but when someone is in a position to prevent that, suddenly it's twisted on its head and presented as morally wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking.

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richlind33: Re Microsoft, whether or not it's the "devil" depends entirely on the perspective(s) from which it's judged; from a purely materialistic perspective it's obviously not, but a Faustian bargain precludes that perspective, does it not?
When you propose that we discuss this outside of the materialistic perspective, do you suggest we assume that Microsoft is a supernatural malevolent force that would take ownership of my soul (whatever that is) after my death? If so, don't you think this hypothetical is getting a bit ... comedic?
Post edited 5 days ago by alaric.us
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richlind33: "starting point" and destitution are unlikely to be the same thing; one is extreme, the other is probably not. Also, let's assume that the people you felt responsible for understood the nature of the dilemma and were prepared to accept the consequences of your choice.
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alaric.us: You'd be surprised. But yes, you are also right in that things could be even worse. Same is true for success, I know there are people who wouldn't consider me successful at all. I guess all things are relative and depend on what you compare them to.

Now if the people I felt responsible for would be perfectly happy with what was coming their way (being fired in this case) then there is no dilemma to be had. Something tells me, however, that they wouldn't be. It's odd that you'd assume they would. Everyone always complains about evil companies firing people, but when someone is in a position to prevent that, suddenly it's twisted on its head and presented as morally wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking.
It isn't a question of cheerfully accepting termination, it's a choice between consequences that are known versus ones that are likely unknown and less immediate.

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richlind33: Re Microsoft, whether or not it's the "devil" depends entirely on the perspective(s) from which it's judged; from a purely materialistic perspective it's obviously not, but a Faustian bargain precludes that perspective, does it not?
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alaric.us: When you propose that we discuss this outside of the materialistic perspective, do you suggest we assume that Microsoft is a supernatural malevolent force that would take ownership of my soul (whatever that is) after my death? If so, don't you think this hypothetical is getting a bit ... comedic?
Outside of a "purely materialistic" perspective, which means having some ability to take into consideration a spiritual/metaphysical perspective, and weighing one against the other.

I take "selling one's soul" to be a metaphor that refers to actions that may have severe consequences.
Post edited 4 days ago by richlind33
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alaric.us: You'd be surprised. But yes, you are also right in that things could be even worse. Same is true for success, I know there are people who wouldn't consider me successful at all. I guess all things are relative and depend on what you compare them to.

Now if the people I felt responsible for would be perfectly happy with what was coming their way (being fired in this case) then there is no dilemma to be had. Something tells me, however, that they wouldn't be. It's odd that you'd assume they would. Everyone always complains about evil companies firing people, but when someone is in a position to prevent that, suddenly it's twisted on its head and presented as morally wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking.
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richlind33: It isn't a question of cheerfully accepting termination, it's a choice between consequences that are known versus ones that are likely unknown and less immediate.
That's not what a Faustian bargain is. Dr. Faust wasn't confused about the consequences of handing his soul over to the Devil, he was a doctor of theology after all. He knew full well who the Devil was, what hell was, and what happens to souls that go to hell. The whole point of the story is that he did it knowingly.

In our (non-supernatural) case I'd imagine a Faustian bargain to be agreeing to something that's very obviously more harmful in the long term, to avoid the current (ostensibly lesser) pain. That's the difficult choice: suffer less now or suffer more later. If instead the choice was between something bad now and something unknown later, then choosing the unknown is the correct course of action.
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richlind33: It isn't a question of cheerfully accepting termination, it's a choice between consequences that are known versus ones that are likely unknown and less immediate.
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alaric.us: That's not what a Faustian bargain is. Dr. Faust wasn't confused about the consequences of handing his soul over to the Devil, he was a doctor of theology after all. He knew full well who the Devil was, what hell was, and what happens to souls that go to hell. The whole point of the story is that he did it knowingly.

In our (non-supernatural) case I'd imagine a Faustian bargain to be agreeing to something that's very obviously more harmful in the long term, to avoid the current (ostensibly lesser) pain. That's the difficult choice: suffer less now or suffer more later. If instead the choice was between something bad now and something unknown later, then choosing the unknown is the correct course of action.
Surely you understand that the term "Faustian bargain" is commonly used as a metaphor and that it's relevance extends to those who do not put faith in religious dogma. Do you or I know the precise value of a soul, assuming we believe that such a thing exists? No. A fully realized being might, but not you or I. It isn't possible to "know" the consequences of losing something that has an undefined value, and they aren't likely to be clearly delineated by those who prey on human weakness and ignorance. There'd be misgivings, but no certainty as to the price that would ultimately be paid.

For those who have materialistic values, the end justifies the means; for those who have spiritual values, the means dictate the end.
Post edited 4 days ago by richlind33